The Empire Deer Hunting Survey was recently added to the Empire Hunting Website. I have been pleased
with the participation and I would like to thank everyone who took the time to take the survey.
If you have not taken it, and you hunt in New York, you can
take it here. We kindly ask that you do not take the
survey if you do not hunt in New York.
The survey was based largely on how New York's deer management program compares to the Mid-West States.
Some of the Empire Hunting faithful may have seen this feature on our Website -
How New York's Gun Season for Deer Compares to Mid-West States .
Check it out if you haven't. It compares and shows how drastically different our GUN SEASON for deer is
different than the MONSTER BUCK States of the Mid-West. We asked hunters how they feel about
changes to the deer season that would mimic the rules they have.
QDM, and large bucks for that matter, spawns from the Mid-West States and the success they have had at producing
exceptionally huge whitetails. From the size of some of the bucks taken in NY in recent years we definitely
have the potential to be right up there with them. With the dwindling number of places to hunt, less
hunters, and people implementing QDM on their own we have taken some dandies in recent years.
Yet there still are not many deer that make it to or past 3 1/2 in New York and only a handful
of them. Why is that?
We cannot guarantee everyone who has taken the survey hunts in New York.
One could also argue that the results of the survey only represent a demographic of New York's hunting population
who are experienced Internet users. The only way you could tie accurate data to the survey is to have people
print it out and mail it in much like the New York Conservation Council has done in the past.
From our Website statistics, the comments posted on the survey, and
the people we know who have taken the survey we are confident that it has been taken mainly, if not exclusively,
by New York hunters.
That being said, what is most important to me is raising awareness to how seemingly out of whack our
gun season is. I hear a lot of people talk about how they want things to be more like the
Mid-West but little talk of changing our regs to be more like theirs.
At the time this was written the survey was nearing 100 people. Hardly enough to say it fully represents
the opinions of all New York hunters. But the overwhelming majority to some of the questions would
lead one to believe that many of those answers will not sway much from where they are right now.
I find the answers to be fascinating.
Lets analyze some of the results shall we:
Question #1 - Which method do you prefer for increasing the quality of bucks in New York?
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A heavy majority lean with antler restrictions over a one buck per season law.
Yet most, not all, Mid-West States only allow one buck per year.
Question #8 - Would you be in favor of shortening the gun season in New York for ANTLERED deer?
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An overwhelming majority are against that idea yet our deer season is way longer than these States.
Question #9 - Would you be in favor of completely separating buck & doe season?
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Completely separating buck & doe season is met with a resounding no. Yet the Mid-West States have
deer seasons that are split or limited by sex to effectively manage their herds while saving
on bucks.
Question #10 - In most areas of New York you can take two bucks if you hunt with a combination of Gun, Bow,
and Muzzleloader. Would you support a law that says the second buck must have at least 4 points on one side?
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This one has always been about 50/50. It is a law in Michigan that I thought was pretty cool.
Question #15 - A split gun season with the hunter choosing one of 2.
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Once again we have an overwhelming number of people who are against that idea. It is practiced in Iowa.
The results of these five questions would indicate that very few NY Hunters want to limit deer hunting
opportunity with a firearm.
You have to admit it, no matter how bad you think things are out there you sure do get a lot of time
to hunt deer in NY with a gun.
People don't seem to support drastic changes to our deer season yet everyone wants bigger bucks. When
it comes to standards already in place in States like Illinois, Iowa, and Kansas that are producing
the largest of whitetail bucks, no one wants to consider changing our laws to be more like theirs.
Why would we ignore the strategies that have worked so well for them? Those States do not have antler
restrictions. They
simply limit the length of time you have to hunt and the number of bucks one can harvest.
Look at the limited time you have to take a buck during the regular firearms seasons in the following States:
- Indiana: 16 days
- Illinois: 10 days
- Iowa: maximum of 9 days
- Kansas: 12 days
- Michigan: 16 days
- Minnesota: 2 - 23 days
- Ohio: 9 days
- Wisconsin: 9 days
New York's regular gun season runs 23-44 DAYS!
Of those eight States listed above and on this page there are
4 that allow 2 bucks per year (Iowa, Illinois, Michigan, & Wisconsin). Each requires
one with a gun and one with a bow. You can't take two with a firearm including muzzleloader seasons.
The other 4 are one buck per year only.
As you can see, the bang-bang days of deer season in these States is limited.
You do not have forever, a year, and a day to harvest an antlered deer during regular firearms.
In addition, you are limited to the number of antlered deer you can take. These States produce
big bucks so why are we not following them?
Everyone knows there are people out there with large leases who practice QDM.
With food plots in place, limited hunting pressure,
and a month to hunt with a gun they have the opportunity to hunt deer during regular gun season like
the majority of us do during bow season. The chances are high that they will encounter a whitetail with
a nice rack long before that deer ever reaches 4 1/2 and even 3 1/2 might be a stretch. That wouldn't
be the case if they had less time to do it. How many of those people also scored during bow season?
Whether it is general public land, private land where you can get permission, or QDM tracts - the deer
get shot long before their life is naturally half over.
15 years ago, a 130 class buck was a rare occurence in the Southern Tier.
These days there seem to be plenty of people who take a 130 each year yet it drastically falls off
at 140. That's because a 130 is a hell of a nice buck for New York and before that deer can get old enough to get
to 140 someone pops it. Don't you ever find it strange to read about people in the Mid-West passing up
130 class bucks? Would you? Could you? What are the chances you are going to see something bigger
than that in the same season in New York? How about the next 5 years? The only way for more deer of that size to live from year to year is to
stop giving people a month to shoot one with a firearm.
I personally do not feel that Antler Restrictions in New York are going to make that big of a difference.
I favor them if there is no other way but I prefer changing the deer season to one that really
favors more bucks getting by and more bucks getting older. That means ensuring less bucks get shot - period.
Antler restrictions will certainly create more 2 1/2 year old deer which will make a better
breeding structure but how many will live past that?
I see older bucks being more in relation to length of time to encounter an antlered deer and quantity
one can take. Not limiting the size. You may be adding slightly older deer with AR but you still have
forever, a year, and a day to encounter one with a gun in NY. Eventually someone is going to get it.
Look at how many big bucks are taken in late gun season.
Late last spring the slumping Boston Bruins traded Big Joe Thornton to the San Jose Sharks. People in
Boston cried bloody murder. This year the Bruins are well over .500 and have the best team they have
had in years. Funny that no one seems to miss him now. Would you be willing to trade in your traditional
NY deer hunting for the return of higher reward in the future? Or would you prefer we stay a quantity State?
The deer regulations we have in place right now are not favorable to establishing an older buck population
and I don't see AR as doing anything but delaying the death of a yearling buck by one year.
Why not follow the path already laid for us and alter our deer regulations to be more like
the Mid-West States that have regs that are favorable to more bucks living each year?
But I don't know. What do you think? Post your comments below.
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Rob Taylor, Founder, EmpireHunting.com
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