The Emperor's Corner
The Ever So Elusive New York Mountain Lion
September 28, 2006
Rob Taylor, Founder, Empire Hunting
 
I had to start a Cougar forum with the recent Cougar activities that have been going on in the Southern Tier near the Andover/Alfred area. It all started least week with this maybe situation which is an article that I WOULD NOT call over-exaggerated but another lacking any real hard evidence
Man believes cougar may have killed deer in Alfred

That spawned this article, also in the Wellsville Daily Reporter, a couple days later which is interesting
Andover man hunting for cougars; Eastern Puma Research Network looking for big cats
Hey, at least he has a plaster cast.

I grew up in this area so I frequent the Wellsville Daily Reporter Website often (who passed on, who got arrested..... that sort of thing). They also have a writer named Oak Duke who writes outdoor articles for them who you may have heard of.

I would never sit here and publicly criticize anyone for their beliefs in the existance in the Cougar in these parts. What do I know? I'm just a guy with a gun and a Web server. At the same time, like a lot of you, until someone actually shoots one (it would have to be self-defense), films one, or one gets hit by a car I will never believe it. I do not believe, at all, that the State stocked them as that would be an operation way too big to cover-up.
The State is also open-minded to the idea of Cougars as they have a Cougar Sighting Report you can fill out if you see one Cougar Sighting Report

It's just hard for me to believe that they are here in any fashion since no one can confirm it - not even tracks in the snow. It's like hunting bigfoot. The Southern Region of New York does have a small population of Bobcats and, as low as it is, it has been confirmed by road kills and tracks in the snow. In fact my neighbor took a picture of a Bobcat 1/2 mile from house here in Honeoye last fall. You can see the picture of it below.

Now, to all of those who believe they are here there is recent evidence to lend. I lived in Idaho until December 2000. At that time there were numerous reports of mountion lion sightings in States like Kansas that bordered the Rocky Mountain States. Unlike New York, that theory was deemed highly likely as Western States severely limited the number of Mountain Lions that could be harvested each year. To my understanding, from my time living out there, a male mountain lion that is driven from it's range by another male could travel hundreds of miles to find a new home. Then Kansas confirmed it. Lab confirms droppings belong to mountain lion

But that is Kansas which is a long long way from New York and far closer to mountain lion native range in the present day. So is that where they come from? Has there been expansion upon expansion? Maybe. As the Southern Tier has seen it's farm land become overgrown we have seen an influx of bears but those are bears which have never disappeared from NE York unlike the mountain lion in the 1880s.

You can't shoot them because they are endangered so that's out. You can take a camera hunting with you but good luck getting close to one. I guess we are left waiting for a car to hit one, someone to find the right patch of snow, or one to show up on a trail camera that can be confirmed as a New York piece of real estate. Me? I'm not going to stop walking my dog any time soon!



Not a Mountain Lion. But a cool photo of a Bobcat Photo By Mary Eltz in Honeoye, NY.
 
Rob Taylor, Founder, EmpireHunting.com


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Don Schimpff Redding, CA - 8/18/2008 2:16:41 PM
We have thousands of mountain lions here, especially in Whiskeytown NRA, where I work as a Volunteer, helping to conduct free kayak tours. MLs have been spreading out in search of new territory, so the possibility of NYS getting a few big cats does exist. After all, the terrain and deer population are very conducive to that eventually happening, IF it has not already happened.
We have a lot of bears, too. It is not uncommon to see them swimming in Whiskeytown as we paddle on our tours.
Mountain lions are VERY secretive and even here, with all we have, seldom are they seen. They can stalk you for hours and you will NOT even be aware of it.
Reply to Comments Posted By Don Schimpff
Dave - 8/16/2008 10:28:54 AM
About 3 years ago while traveling on the NYS Thruway I came accross about a dozen cars stopped on the side of the road with people staring up on a hillside. I pulled over and saw an animal eating what appeared to be a deer about 150 or 200 yards away. After a few moments I realized it was a mountain lion. The tail was the reason we all agreed it was a mountain lion. I have seen a few bobcats and this was bigger and had a long tail
Reply to Comments Posted By Dave
Anonymous - 8/8/2008 8:44:43 PM
In 1970's I saw 3 BIG cats chasing each other in field across st from my home! My home was on hill that overlooks Chemung Valley. The Big Cats each looked to weigh 125 lbs or more, Looked to be about 2' at the front shoulder, and at least 3'long bodies; not counting the tails. The tails were long; 3-4' long, and they held them up as they ran. There was 2 black colored, and one tawny color one! They ran out of the old barn and around and up behind the barn, and off into woods. A relative was standing talking with me in my yard and she also saw them. We walked up there afterward and saw the cat pad prints in the dirt. The prints were of pad with 4 toe, and prints were 5" diameter; I measured them. Never thought to take plaster casts then. Neighbor up the Rd also saw one of the blk ones he said loaping through the snow at edge of woods when he was hunting. Another time in summer my daughter came home all excited and said coming down the rd on her 10 speed she had passed a big black panther just sitting at edge of rd. She said as she looked back at it over her shoulder it was walking off into the tall grass by the creek! It scared her pretty good and she really didn't ride the 10 speed much after that. I also heard one screaming down in woods in back of the house about 3:00am once. Neighbors coon hounds barking woke me and sounded like the had treed something, then I heard the unmistaken sound of cougar, and then one of the hounds let out a yelp like he was in pain, no mistaking either one of those sounds. It went on for a while, and I finally just closed the bedroom window and went back to bed! I have no idea how that all turned out. I also heard one in the middle of the day on two diff occasions in winter. The one sounded like a woman screaming real loud. Startled me so that I walked out side to see but nothing there. The other time it sounded just like a baby crying so much that I walked out to the rd and looked in the snow bank expecting to see a baby, nothing! I'd told my Dad about it later and he said it was cougar, and that they were seen at times here and there in Chemung Co. I don't know why they keep saying they don't exist there? I've heard, and seen them myself, and know what I saw, and heard! P.S. I had told my neighbor across the st I has seen the cats in her property and she said the conservation people had told her when she moved there that there were no cougars in NYS! She had 2 small children that at times would play hide in the tall grass on Mommy! I warned her to watch her kids close you know. She soon found out for herself as she was in her garden working and looked up and saw the big tawny cat up by that old barn. She started screaming and the cat ran off into the woods, but she nolonger questioned me on the BIG CATS in Chemung Co. You can tell me I never saw the big cats, but I, and others up there know what we were seeing!
Reply to Comments Posted By Anonymous
Anonymous - 8/3/2008 10:51:15 PM
saw what i would call a mountain lion 1 1/2 miles outside of ENDICOTT NY it was about 5 to 5 1/2 feet long. It's tail was almost the length of it's body. It was about 75 to 100 yards away by the time i got my cell phone in picture mode it had disappeared. Unless people are feeding their housecats steroids I do believe we now have mountan lions in our area. I have also talked to others who have seen these cats in the same area. There have also been tracks seen by hunters that i have talked to.
Reply to Comments Posted By Anonymous
rick naples area - 8/2/2008 8:12:03 AM
although i have yet to see one there are several people who claim to have that i have discussed this with, including foresters,law enforcment officials and animal control officials. these people are generally people first called when someone in the public sees something unknown to them, and all of them can tell me a story about sightings although only one has ever told me he saw one.
I certainly dont believe its impossible for them to take up residence in this area with its high forested hills and sparse human population as well as the high number of deer per square mile. I also believe with those factors included and the fact that most of us humans are loud lumbering folks who make alot of noise when adventuring into the woods, that it makes it difficult to see anything of the sort. I know there are bears in the Hi Tor managment area (6100 acres of it to be exact) but as i have been walking around through the area i have yet to sight on. Just to add to the bear fact, a black bear was photographed in the widmers wine company vinyards off 245 last week by empoloyees who were working there at the time, this property borders the hi tor management area.
Reply to Comments Posted By rick
Lisa Venske - 7/21/2008 8:32:35 AM
I have heard numerous rumors about a mountain lion in my neighborhood. The sheriff's department doesn't know anything about it. My neighbor's dachsund mysteriously disappeared one night three weeks ago and hasn't been seen. Who do you recommend I contact to find out more info on this. I know we had reported sightings a few years ago in Pawlin, NY (an acquaintance of mine has a photo of a lion behind her childrens' swing set in her backyard). Thanks for any help you can provide.
Reply to Comments Posted By Lisa Venske
Craig - 7/18/2008 7:15:54 AM
I'm with you. Until I actually see hard proof that they exist (something other than and eyewitness account or hearsay)I won't believe it. Too many people are saying they've seen one with no real proof. Just about everyone these days has a cell phone with a camera on it........where are the pictures?
Reply to Comments Posted By Craig
KEN - 7/14/2008 11:35:43 AM
I have never had the privledge to see a lion but too many respectable people i know say with total certainty that they have seen m-lions in my area. I believe them, I just believe there are not many and they are VERY elusive. I just dont want one on my back at 5:30 am on my way to my deer stand.
Reply to Comments Posted By KEN
Anonymous - 7/12/2008 10:50:25 AM
I have a home in North Blenheim New York and I have personally seen a mountain loin when I was younger with my dad and have been telling naysayers since, and just recently another family member also was taken back by the sight of one just standing in the woods about 30 feet behind our home. Yes they are there and I hope some day I have the opportunity to take a picture of one. I have seen bobcats and foxes and this animal was a loin !
Reply to Comments Posted By Anonymous
Ginny - 6/25/2008 10:58:20 AM
Twice in the past week, two different neighbors have said they have seen a Cougar or Mountain Lion. I live in a senior apartment building here. The guy upstairs was an avid hunter for many years and he swears that he saw a cougar in the back yard last week. We didn't believe him but now a next door neighbor has said he saw a Mountain lion going up into the back hill last night at 8:45 Pm
I take photos of all the outdoor critters from my window. There is a Grey Fox that comes down every night at that time. Do you think maybe they are following the fox? I sure hope I can get a picture of this "big cat"!!!
Reply to Comments Posted By Ginny
Replies to Ginny
Betsy Mohawk - 7/3/2008 5:59:47 PM
I talked to one of these guys and then contacted my nephew, a DEC engineer. I heard the party line- no no no unless someone released a "pet". But I am being careful with my kids and dog.....we have deer,turkey etc. traveling through our lawn - all good eating (or "bait"?)for one of these critters.
Anonymous Dutchess County NY - 5/18/2008 9:32:30 PM
I'm not sure where Honeyoe is, but we are just an hour an a half outside of NYC. There are not just solitary rare bobcats in the area, but enough that both my wife and I have seen them running here along the Taconic parkway in the wee hours of the morning. Now, as for mountain lions, that is different. I have never seen one, but my brother swore he saw one. About two months later, a laborer was working at my house a swore he saw one. The odd thing, my brother had never met the laborer and the laborer never heard my brothers story and they both had the same odd detail in their descriptions. They both said it was "dark brown like a chocolate lab". And, no, none of my neighbors have a lab! I'm on line researching this because I spoke with an acquaintance who claims his neighbor did just photo one on his property. He called the DEC, who said they don't exist. When he told them he was on his way in to grab his gun and shoot it, they told him it was illegal. He asked the sensible question: How can it be illegal to shoot something that doesn't exist. P.S. they said we didn't have fishers down here either and people have been trapping them.
Reply to Comments Posted By Anonymous
paul sauter - 3/17/2008 9:20:15 PM
could cougars come south from canada?
Reply to Comments Posted By paul sauter


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