adkhunter - I take it that you hunt the vast woodlands of the Adirondacks. My property is actually right on the edge of the Adirondacks but is actually mostly agricultural farm land. My woods is essentially surrounded by all kinds of crops from cor, alfalfa, spinach, soy beans and etc. 5.3 acres of my interior property is actually planted to corn as we speak. The deer that live around my property don't have to worry about where there next meal is coming from. Last winter there was actually about 250 acres of standing corn until early Feb, which is when the local farmer harvested his corn. This corn field was about 500 yds from my dense cedar swamp woods and the deer had a fantastic trail leading from my property to the corn field all winter long. My issue is that local hunters will shoot the first buck they see without hesitation or consideration towards QDMA. I personally feel a shorter gun season would help remedy the situation. Plus due to the local farm land, very few deer die during the winter and with not being able to consistantly harvest does has led for an increased population of does over the years, and an unbalanced adult deer sex ratio. I do understand that in the remote reaches of the Adirondacks there are limited food sources for deer, and the deer density dramatically decreases. My property is in WMU 6F which primarily consists of remote woodlands, however my property is right on the fringe of agricultural farm land. I feel that deer density numbers on mine and surrounding parcels of land are not accurately reported through the overall makeup of WMU 6F. I am hoping that the NYS DMAP program will help me harvest a few more does in the near future, and help me get my herd numbers more in check. adkhunter - I do agree with you, most of the Adirondacks certianly needs to be logged off to promote new green regeneration of native plants. I am actually currently looking into different logging companies to come into my property to achieve these same goals. Even though I have a 5.3 acre field for foot plots on the edge of my woods, my woods are very mature and lack a lot of young vegetation to promote good deer forage and bedding cover. I also would like to add an additional 1 acre food plot clearing right in the middle of my property, we will see how things turn out. I guess it really depends on the exact makeup of the property specifically where you hunt. I certianlly do not need 40 days to harvest 1 or more deer on my property. adkhunter thanks for the comments, I love inteligent deer hunting and property management conversation, good luck to you in 2008.
Reply to Comments Posted By NorthernNYhunter

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Northernnyhunter, I personnely been hunting the northern ADK's for over 30 years and have been very successful and have been fortunate to take some large bucks. The reason why is that the deer population is less than half deer per square mile including Bucks and does,going dayif not weeks not seeing a deer at all. I order to give a hunter (old or young) the opportunity to even see a deer,the gun season should not be shortened. The issue is that the Northern ADK's is so swampy and thick along with very little feed that the deer are stressed. The state of NY needs to log in order to provide more feed and a better habitat for not only the deer but other animals of the ADK's. Shooting less deer is not the solution, it's creating an environment were deer will be healthier,live longer and survive a long winter. By shortenning the gun season the lees deer will be harvested and less hunters will loose interest and the tradition will suffer.
Reply to Comments Posted By adkhunter

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I have read all the comments posted so far and most everyone made very good points, except for Chufa. It is too bad he has that kind of outlook on hunting, which allows no consideration for other people's hunting enjoyment, and the future of this amazing sport, and better yet, way of life - deer hunting. I live in northern NY, about 10 miles south of the Canadian border. I spent countless hrs afeild every year. I also travel with family to the Southern Teir in Livingston and Wyoming Counties for opening of shotgun. I think NY certianly has the potential to rival states like the golden triangle (Il,KS,IA) but before that can happen NY needs to revamp the deer management philosiphy. here in the northern zone our rifle season starts Oct 19th and ends the first sunday in Dec, usually around the 5th or 6th. You are talking about a 40 plus day gun season, way too much time for all the immature bucks to get shot. Also here in northern NY there are no DMP's, that's right, unless you bow hunt or muzzleloader hunt you can not shoot a doe. This has created a problem where I hunt of a completely out of whack deer sex ratio, I honestly see about 20 does for every buck. I travel to the Southern Teir because the trophy prospects and hunting in general is much better in the southern zone. Everyone think of this, what kind of hunting what the midwest states currently have if NY's hunting seasons and laws have been in place there over the past 25 - 30 yrs. I guarantee they would not have the kinda hunting they have now. Despite these very liberal laws NY is still a top 6-8 state in the country for whitetail population, an estimated 1 million strong. But the deer herd has become very young in general and the issue needs to be addressed through some more conservative game laws. I would love to see NY shorten the gun season considerably, provide more opportunitues for muzzleloader hunting, and make QDMA a part of the hunter education courses to inform the young future of our sport about the importance of quality deer management. I know I have been rattling on here, but I could write for days on the topic of deer hunting and what I feel NY should do to increase the age structure of the deer herd, and put more emphasis on quality deer management. If anyone with power to change NY DEC game laws reads this or knows someone who does. Get on the phone to the DEC Departments in the midwestern states and ask them for advice on what NY can do, and most importantly listen to them. The midwest certianly has figured aout the essential ingredients for QDMA, with a revamped deer management program, a little hard work from all those who enjoy hunting here in NY, and some time for these changes to take effect and yield the results, I think NY could join the midwest in being known for a trophy whitetail paradise. Thanks to everyone who took the time to read my post. Great luck to you all during the 2008 season.
Reply to Comments Posted By NorthernNYhunter

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Yes - Illinois and Iowa allow 2 bucks per year (for residents only)But that is after an awesome system, and awesome deer had already been in place. We don't have to keep restrictions forever or kill less deer forever, just until the population and age of the deer rises to an exceptable level.Then we can go back to 2 buck limits after the needed gaols are accomplished and then with proper mgmt, the deer will sustain a healthy heard.
Reply to Comments Posted By KEN

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Don, if we don't have it so bad here then why are the license sales down 150,000. Their down because it's very boring hunting here. I remember
Reply to Comments Posted By keith

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I see that Illinois and Iowa allow 2 bucks per season .That
sort of throws out the idea that we should only be allowed 1 a year doesn't it ? Shorter firearms seasons would help but I can't image how much whining that would cause. I follow my own antler restrictions but I don't want it as law.There are alot of huge bucks killed in ny each year but they aren't behind every tree and they wouldn't mean much if they were.Some guys will go a lifetime and not kill a huge deer ,others will kill several,luck and skill will make the difference.We really don't have it that bad here and we don't have to pay out the wazoo for a lease like midwesterners do .
Reply to Comments Posted By don

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Chufa, the reason that you believe that New York hunting will never compare to out west is because you shoot the first thing you see walk by. This is fine if your a new hunter and wish to become more seasoned, but otherwise you should try having some patience and see what happens.
Reply to Comments Posted By buckman

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Ive shot many deer in new york in the 120 to 140 range with my bow and shot the state record with my muzzleloader this year(221). Yeah there are some big deer here, but when I sit different stands based on the winds for about 100hrs the first 2 weeks of november and see very little rutting action and see 4 or 5 small bucks and a 130 class that I passed and some does, thats pretty pathetic. I have a hard time hunting all day day after day, good luck keeping a kids attention. I'd much rather bring a kid turkey hunting in this state.
Reply to Comments Posted By keith

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NY prob. will never equal the midwest but it could come close. (if it never does it's cause of the mgmt. system in place- not the deer) Some huge bucks get taken around here(even with horrible mgmt.) so some awesome genetics are there and with the right mgmt. it could be pretty damn close to the midwest. Hope someday the powers that be get it right so it can be proven. A budy of mine found sheds that scored 180 (without the spread)- is that midwest enough for you?
Reply to Comments Posted By KEN

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chura, you must be a city hunter?thats one reason why we have limited deer herds around because of people like you! thats real good for our future of deer hunting in ny!
Reply to Comments Posted By tom

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I just read fred niemans article in the outdoor news and fred you are 100% on the money with what you said. Lousy hunting for deer and small game is why sales are way down and are going to continue to decline. Its pretty sad when a person can travel to the midwest and have better hunting on state land than you can have here on private land. Kids are the future of are sport and 95% of them are bored hunting here after a few days. Heres a thought for this state open seagull hunting and maybe we can get more kids into hunting.
Reply to Comments Posted By keith

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Were not the midwest and will never compare.If you want big bucks then travel otherwise if its brown its down. It should be unlimited does and bucks.
Reply to Comments Posted By chufa

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Sounds good Andy,(i even think it should be 4pts to a side) i'd also say after a couple years of this type of hunting, you could even let residents take a second buck (like illinois)- and the bigger bucks would bring in more non-residents.(sell more tags)
Reply to Comments Posted By KEN

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I would like to see a longer bow season, and a shorter gun season. I have hunted several midwestern states, and they really seem to have their deer management figured out! The one thing they all seem to have in common is a long archery season,"early October through late January in many states! I also am in favor of a one buck limit! """Top Secret recipe for more big bucks in New York"""1.Shorter gun season starting after the rut!
2.Three point to a side antler restriction!
3.One buck limit!
Reply to Comments Posted By Andy Kilmer

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Comparing new york to the midwest is an insult to them, Were light years behind them
Reply to Comments Posted By keith levick

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If the DEC wants to really improve the deer hunting in NYS, treat it as big business. Take what is working else where and copy it. I do agree with a shorter gun season and a one buck limit per year.
Reply to Comments Posted By Dave

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you can't compare new york to the midwest!the midwest has a good deer herd!new york state has tooo long of a gun season,compare that to the midwest ,that why lots people go to the midwest.the only thing nys dec cares about is $$$. midwest is more toward the hunter rather than the $$$.so how can you compare apples to oranges!
Reply to Comments Posted By tom

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I like all of these ideas I'm reading here. What about if NY had some system where you had to shoot a doe first before you could take a buck? I think that could also be a big help; I know they have something like that in NJ. There are so many does running around out there, I actually didn't start seeing bucks until the late season this year, but I saw does on every outing (hunted 25+ days).

I also agree that we should have a shorter gun season. Ten days sounds like it would be a good length and would give more bucks a chance to grow old.
Reply to Comments Posted By Marc

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I bow hunt all over the midwest and I've said it for years, we will never have hunting like your mid-west states until this gun season is shortened by at least half. Iowa and Illinois have much less hunting pressure than we due so it's tough to compare us to them. Wisconsin has more hunting pressure than we due but lead in record books. Theres no reason we couldn't be at their level. Their opening day of shotgun is the 3rd saturday in november same as us, Your allowed 2 bucks and multiple does there same as us, they have no antler restriction same as us, but yet they lead the nation in deer hunting, WHY? A 9 day shotgun or rifle season depending on if you live in the southern or northern part of the state. I think it's obivious we need a short gun season.
Reply to Comments Posted By keith levick

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dec needs to have longer bow season and a later gun season plus place a restriction on the size of the buck to insure that we might be able to see some bigger bucks in the woods instead of all these small bucks. make it manditory that you have to take a doe first and then a buck. gun season should be no more than ten days. december 1 to the 10th.
Reply to Comments Posted By swp

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I have been fortunate to hunt in illinois the past few years and have yet to go a day without seeing deer there. The last day on stand was 7a.m. to 8:30 am and i saw over 40 deer (not high fences) They have two 3-day gun hunts and that is it! A points per-side solution works to a point but only in areas that the hunters are educated enough (or willing enough) to let a 1-1\2 or 2-1\2 year old buck walk instead of pounding it just because it has 3 or 4 on a side. We need to shorten the season and reduce tag #'s. I'm not even against having a year when NO bucks could be taken.
Reply to Comments Posted By ken

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I COMPLAINED THAT THERE WERE NOT ENOUGH DEER IN MOST OF THE STATE PARKS AND NUSNIC PERMITS WAS A LARGE PART OF THE PROBLEM.. I HUNT LECTHWORTH STATE PARK, NOW THEY ARE PUTTING INTO EFECT THE POINT SYSTEM. THATS GOOD. MY QUESTION IS WHY IN SOUTHERN OHIO,MOST OF OHIO,REALLY I SEE BIGGER AND MORE DEER. THEIR SYSTEM IS A BUCK TAG, AND UP TO 6 MORE EITHER SEX DEER TAGS YOU CAN BUY IF YOU WOULD LIKE T FOR A FEE FOR EACH TAG.. NO LOTTERY THEY COLLECT ALOT OF MONEY FROM THE HUNTERS THAT WANT TO PAY. BUT MY POINT IS YOU CAN KILL BUCK OR DOE YET THERE IS A BUNCH OF DEER.
Reply to Comments Posted By JAMES BEARCE

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I talked with someone briefly from the QDM Association at the Hamburg Fairgrounds yesterday, and he was adamant that there was absolutely no farmer deer slaughtering going on. LOL.
I said he should open his eyes and his ears.
There certainly is a large amount of slaughter happening, in the Souther Tier and in the Upper Northern areas.
My inlaws own a farm up near Brushton, and tehy can confirm that they have seen piles of deer carcasses around their areras.
Reply to Comments Posted By Tom

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Many hunters say you should not shoot just any deer you see, but last year I hunted every day of the gun season and only saw 6 deer. I've hunted for 41 years. The year before I only saw 4,and did not kill any. I feel I know how to hunt but their just isn't enough deer. I lived in Ohio for 13 years and filled my two tags easily. In fact the first buck I saw in the wild was in Southern Ohio.I was 27 years old and hunted in the Southern Tier for 11 years.I now hunt Lecthworth Park, Alligany, Genesse and Wyoming County. I know we need to let them grow, But with the farmers shooting every one that moves and at night, what chance do they have. Don't blame the good hunter for shooting a deer any deer. Stop the nuscin permits, open their posted land if they need to reduce the deer population. I have many hunter freinds that would gladly plant food lots on state land if they were allowed. We need more deer.
Reply to Comments Posted By James Bearce

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i also agree with most states having a minimum point requirment. we need to up ours from a mere spike buck to a minimum of 3 per side, or 3 on one side in case its a half rack. this would also slow down the pop shots at deer on deer drives. alot of young deer are taken on deer drives. we need to get serious about deer management and big buck management in new york!!
Reply to Comments Posted By contractor432000

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I hunt Tioga County, and I also hunt mid western states as well. I feel that if NY has any chance of competing with the golden triangle, IA, KS,IL, etc. We need to keep southern tier, rifle free, Tioga was recently changed to a rifle zone. Also a gun season during the rut ensures alot of immature bucks being taken. It seems that everyone wants to kill big bucks, and these are the same people shooting the first antlered deer they see. Southern tier of NY has major trophy potential,but will never be a KS or an IA. They need age, and seasons that allow them to get age. I think an antler restriction should be put in place as well as later gun season. There is no sense in killing small bucks, if you want meat, shoot a doe!there are tons of them. These methods are worth the wait, I put pope & young bucks on the ground every year and this year 2 Booners on the ground. I can tell everyone that the reason is what I said earlier. Age+Genetics= Trophy Bucks! Happy Hunting.
Reply to Comments Posted By Legendary Big Buck Hunter

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